Tuesday, September 6, 2016

The John MacDonald Dilemma

Mistakes in Genealogies

The John MacDonald Dilemma

Here is a good example of what I mean by the statement 

there are bound to be mistakes, red flags, glitches in some genealogies

The following underlined  info on John D was sent to me as part of a family history to be checked over. On reviewing this info, It created as RED FLAG when the dates of birth & death were looked at. As i started to put more meat on the bones of this John  D, it became obvious that two John MacDonalds were being mixed up.

Initially mistakes, glitches like this are almost automatic for all of us doing genealogy, myself included. They are called mistakes, but not real mistakes, just red flags, glitches until more research is done on the person concern from the discrepancies that are the starting point.

Below are my observations on these two John MacDonalds

Following that is the documentation backing up these observations.

John D 1805-1878 was actually born in May 1806 while the other John was born in 1818.

I do not claim anything by these results, good, bad, right, wrong or indifferent. I leave that to the viewer. I simply present the results. It is as it is. 


 2. John D MacDonald, born 02 Oct 1818 in 1/1st Locheil, Ontario; died 24 Mar 1878 in 34/3rd
Lochiel, Ontario (census 1851 b: 1810). He was the son of  4. Roderick (Taylor) MacDonald and  5. Oirig (Harriet) McCormick. He married  3. Nancy (Ann) MacGillis Abt. 08 Apr 1849 in unknown.
 3. Nancy (Ann) MacGillis, born 1817; died 27 Sep 1868 in 34/3rd Lochiel, Ontario (census 1851 b:
1818). She was the daughter of  6. Neil MacGillis and  7. Mary MacMaster.

here is the church death record for the John who died in 1878
from St Finnan’s RC BMD 1878 deaths
D9 John D McDonald
On this 26th day of March 1878, I the undersigned parish priest have interred in the  catholic cemetery of Alexandria, the body of John D McDonald 34-3 Lochiel, deceased suddenly of heart decease, on the 24th instant aged about 73 years. Were present at the internment Alexander McKinnon jun’r 36-3 Lochiel, George Harrison Esq., Allan B McDonald, Esq., Angus McGillis 32-3 Lochiel, John McDonald [Allan] 35-4 Lochiel and others.
John S O’Connor  pp

here is what is on the tombstone for the john who died in 1878  see also photo
from Gravestones of Glengarry  Vol.4 Alexandria, St Finnan’s cemetery, 2008 by Alex  Fraser  Rhoda Ross
#347 McD 
West side
John D. McDonald 1805 - 1878; his wife, Ann McGillis, 1817 - 1868, their
dau. Catherine F. 1860 - 1913, Mary McDonald 1842 - 1902.
McDONALD

here is the church record for the John born in 1818
from St Raphaels RC BMD 1818 Baptisms
B116 John MacDonald 
The 8th day of October 1818, I the undersigned priest and vicar of St. Raphaels baptised John born the 2nd of October of the lawful marriage of Roderick MacDonald and of Oirig MacCormick. Sponsors John MacDonald and Catherina MacDonald. 
J. MacDonald P 
John McDonald died March 24th, 1878 age 73 from Ontario Deaths
bottom middle




MY OBSERVATIONS ON THE ABOVE  Take them as you are able to as you digest this outline.
all these observations are subject to further clarification and correction as I am going on what info is available. more research has to be done on both these  Johns before this can really be fully sorted out.
Am I missing something, probably, anyway these are my observations at present.

1— according to the church death record and tombstone for the John who died in 1878 he was age 73 thus indicating he was born in 1805
2— according to the baptism record of John born 1818 there is no indication that he was more than 6 days old at the time of his baptism
3— thus there is a 13 year gap between these 2 records, 1805 and 1818, thus a RED FLAG 
4— thus the person born in 1818 is not the same John who married Nancy McGillis as is indicated by the church record and tombstone
5—  thus two John’s are being mixed up
6—   The info is both right and wrong at the same time. The name is right but it is for a different person
7—  This is how easy it is to be right and wrong at the same time
8— when dealing with similar names like john or Alex or Mary it is easy to believe you have the right person. Once you begin to put meat on the bones a different scenario appears.
9— thus it appears that these 2 Johns were brothers born 13 years a part, providing also that they were both the sons of Roderick ‘Taylor’
10— without paying attention to what a person is looking at it becomes very easy to make these kind of mistakes and that is why I put a lot of cautions in the MacDonald of Loup work I do. You can have the right names but the wrong people and not know it.
11— this is why detailed information is required not just brief summaries.
12— Also see p.70, 90, 91 of McCormick’s of Glengarry by Thelma McDonald & Mary Divine
where she has the John who married Nancy McGillis dieing in 1886 
13— take away the John born in 1818 as the husband of Nancy McGillis and we have a whole new ball game on our hands.
14— There is basically no indication for the John born ca 1805 or marriage record in 1849 that provides info as to who his parents actually are.
15— Roderick taylor died in 1852 on Loch 1C N29 at age 70
16— John who died in 1878 was on Loch 3C N34 age 73
17— also Roderick Taylor MacDonald and OIRIG/Harriet McCormick got married in 1817, 12 years after the John who was born in 1805. 
18— Thus it is very unlikely that John born in 1805 is the son of Roderick Taylor.
19— Thus with all these discrepancies with these 2 John's it will throw of what ever ancestry was assumed that John 1805-1878 was part of.
20— Danny John would still be a son of John D but not a grandson of Roderick Taylor who died in 1852 on Loch 1C N29 at age 70
 21—  These decrepancies  also give some credence to your statement  "":has shown that there is something not right with the current set up of how families have been chart.""
 22— Unless there is more factual evidence brought forward as to who this John born in 1805 ACTUALLY is, T MacD may still believe he is as descendant of Roderick Taylor. From where I stand this is only a vague assumption offering little to go on.
23— These 2 different John MacDonald with the info available are from 2 separate families and do not seem to be brothers either.
24— I know that with this outline I have some of this info wrong, mixed up in the MacDonalds of Loup V.5 CD which I was not aware of prior to doing this review.
25—How does T MacD know that this John born 1805 is actually the son of Roderick Taylor who died in 1852?
26— It is somewhat understandable that Roderick Taylor and his wife Harriet could have had a child in 1816 or so before their 1817 marriage. Although in the realm of possibility it seems very unlikely that they had a child 12 years before their 1817 marriage. Even if they had an extremely long relationship, again it seems very unlikely that they would have a child born in 1805.
27-- Please explain to me, how a person can die in 1878 at age 73 and be born in 1818?

take care and God Bless
Alex W Fraser
   

 Aug 8/16




Documentation on the above observations.



JOHN D MCDONALD 1805 -1878 the ancestor of T MacDonald who married Nancy McGillis
Thus, there are 2 different John McDonalds from 2 different families being mixed up creating this dilemma.. 

John D 1805- is not the son of Roderick Taylor MacDonald & Harriet McCormick
=========
Alex W Fraser: Observations on this documentation records made without prejudice or criticism  The viewer is under no obligation to accept, agree, believe the conclusions as stated here as a result of the documentation/records I am presently aware off. How the person views this. is their choice, it can & will change their view point or not, but it does not change the results stated unless new factual documentation evidence surfaces.This result will be left as is to stand on its own.  
I do not claim anything by these results, good, bad, right, wrong or indifferent. I leave that to the viewer. I simply present the results. It is as it is.  These results are  all subject to further clarification and Correctionj. 
Aug 10 2016


a quick overview of John D MacDonald ancestry, see chart
















 from St Raphael’s RC BMD 1806 baptisms
B22  John MacDonald 
John MacDonald lawful son of Donald MacDonald and Ann MacDonald was born the 6th and was baptized the 18th of May 1806. The sponsors were James MacDonell and Catherine MacDonald. 

from the 1839 census
Lochiel 3rd concession
34 3 W.5 John         M'Donald

Marriage to Nancy McGillis April 1849  has no documentation, source to back up date or  location
Update 9/29/16 .. Thanks to James Allan MacDonald, CT USA for bring this marriage to my attention.
from St Finnan’s RC BAMD 1849 marriages
B3a John McDonald  & Nancy McGillis
On the 8th day of April 1849 after one publication of the marriage banns, the other 2 being forgotten & ation? given gratis, & dispense of the undersigned priest have married John McDonald son of Donald Donald McDonald and Nancy McDonell, to Nancy Magillis daughter of the late Neil Mcgillis and Mary McMastre. Witness Archy McDonell, Allan McKinnon, & Alec McNeil
Denis Begley



from St Finnan's RC BMD 1878 deaths
John McDonald died March 24th, 1878 age 73 from Ontario Deaths
bottom middle

D9 John D McDonald
On this 26th day of March 1878, I the undersigned parish priest have interred in the  catholic cemetery of Alexandria, the body of John D McDonald 34-3 Lochiel, deceased suddenly of heart decease, on the 24th instant aged about 73 years. Were present at the internment Alexander McKinnon jun’r 36-3 Lochiel, George Harrison Esq., Allan B McDonald, Esq., Angus McGillis 32-3 Lochiel, John McDonald [Allan] 35-4 Lochiel and others.
John S O’Connor  pp



from Gravestones of Glengarry  Vol.4 Alexandria, St Finnan’s cemetery, 2008 by Alex W Fraser  Rhoda Ross

#347 McD 
West side
John D. McDonald 1805 - 1878; his wife, Ann McGillis, 1817 - 1868, their dau. Catherine F. 1860 - 1913, Mary McDonald 1842 - 1902.
McDONALD
North side
Henrietta McDonald 1894 - 1895; Joseph Autey  1912 - 1917
East side
Dan J. McDonald died Feb. 12, 1922 aged 64 yrs. His wife, Harriet
MacDonald, 1863 - 1953; Sally MacDonald 1898 - 1962; Ann L. MacDonald  Sept. 28, 1887 - Aug. 14, 1972. R.I.P. 
McDONALD

photo image above of official Ontario death record for John D MCDONALD, bottom row middle Mar 24 1878


from 1861 census  see lines 32 to 37 







This is a scenario of a strong impression I have on the ancestry of John D MacDonald 1805-1878

I have a strong impression, right or wrong on the following aspect of the John McDonald Conundrum I have help create or added to

These clues may or may not mean or lead anywhere, nevertheless

here they are

The “ D “ in John D McDonald may refer to the name of his father Duncan or Donald. More likely Donald

In the 1861 census, Provided we found the right John McDonald family there is an Ann McDonald  listed at age 80 and that could be, but not necessarily  John’s mother

also in 1850 there was an Arch McDonald died on 34/3 Lochiel age 29 son of Donald of Allan Ban Egg

from Fr John ’s Diary

APR 23 1850 ARCH MD, AGE 26, IN LOCHIEL 3C N34 IN EGG, HUSBAND OF MARY MACDOUGALD; SON OF DONALD OF ALLAN "EGG”.


and
MACDONALD,  FLORA ON JUL 3 1856, IN KENYON 1C N1, DAU OF DONALD SON OF ALLAN BAN "EGGICH";   WIFE OF ANGUS MACDOUGALL SON OF ANGUS OF DONALD OF ANGUS OF JOHN BAN.

based on very sketchy evidence my scenario is as follows

Lets assume that  John D is the son of Ann as stated above. 

lets also assume that the D in the John D  represents Donald the father

As Arch 34/3 Loch & Flora are children of Donald & Ann, its assume that this John D is their brother

I have nothing other than what i state above to back up this presumption.
AWF Aug 9, 2016

In addition to this I came across the following in Fr John’s Diary 1819-1866 & 1839 Census in part;

from Fr John’s Diary of Deaths 1819-1866 & 1839 Census in part, 1992, edited by Alex W Fraser
3C N_ -MACDONALD, DONALD ON JUN 5 1855, SON OF ALLAN BAN "EGGACH".
No death record was found in St Finnan’s for Donald in 1855

from the 1839 census in part for Lochiel  3rd concession

lot 35 3rd
Donald      McDonald
Nancy "           his wife
Angus
Allan
Archibald
Flory
Catherine 14
Mary 12
Margery 10
Rannal 8

from Fr john’s Diary of Deaths 1819-1866 & 1839 Census in part, 1992, edited by Alex W Fraser
MACDONALD, NANCY ON MAY 19 1864, IN LOCHIEL, DAU OF ALLAN SON OF ALEX OF 

MAY 19 64 NANCY MD, IN LOCHIEL, DAU OF ALLAN SON OF ALEX OF DONALD: & WIDOW OF DONALD MD SON OF ALLAN BAN, EGG LOCH 12,    

from St Finnan’s RC BMD 1864 deaths
D11 ______ wife of D McDonell
On the 9th day of May 1864 the body of _______ widow of the late Donald McDonald 35-3 Lochiel was interred in the presence of John McDonald, Angus McGillis & others.
James I Chisholm

John McDonald was at his mothers funeral in 1864


from St Raphael’s RC BMD 1830 baptisms
B85 Ranald MacDonell 
On the 31st day of May 1830, we the undersigned priest officiating in the parish of St. Raphaels have baptised Ranald born on this day the 31st of May of the lawful marriage of Donald MacDonell and of Anne MacDonell of Lot no. 35 in the 3rd concession of Lochiel. Sponsors Daniel MacNeil and Anne MacDonell. 
Cullin  priest 

from St Finnan’s RC BMD 1857 marriages, Alexandria, Ont
M 9  RANALD McDonell and Isabella Fraser 
On the 9th day of August 1857 Ranald McDonell son of Donald McDonell deceased and Ann McDonald Lot No 35 - 3rd Lochiel was married to Isabella Fraser daughter of Alexander Fraser and Christy McDonald of the 2nd Con Kenyon after one publication. No impediment was discovered. Witness Robert Quigly and Jannat McDonald. 
James J. Chisholm 

from St Finnan’s RC BMD 1874 deaths
D29 Ranald McDonald  35/3 Lochiel
On this 3rd day of August 1874, I the undersigned parish priest have interred in the catholic cemetery at Alexandria, the body of Ranald McDonald deceased 1st instant, on the lot wherein he had been born, 35/3 Lochiel Glengarry Canada, aged 42 years. Were present at the internment his brother John D McDonald, Alex’r D McKinnon, Capt Lauchlin McDougald and many others.
John S O’Connor

==================

Alex W Fraser: 
Observations on the above documentation records made without prejudice or criticism  The viewer is under no obligation to accept, agree, believe the conclusions as stated here as a result of the documentation/records I am presently aware off. How the person views this. is their choice, it can & will change their view point or not, but it does not change the results stated unless new factual documentation evidence surfaces.This result will be left as is to stand on its own.  
I do not claim anything by these results, good, bad, right, wrong or indifferent. I leave that to the viewer. I simply present the results.
Aug 10 2016

My earlier observations stand as is and plus the following

The proof of the parents of John D, in a nutshell is in the St Finnan ’s Church death record of Ranald McDonald as shown above

Ranald according to his marriage to Isabella Fraser in 1857 is the son of Donald and Ann McDonald

In the death record of Ranald 1874 it states that Ranald had a brother John D; Thus John D has to be a son of the same Donald and Ann MacDonald.

Thus, there are 2 different John’s from 2 different families being mixed up creating this dilemma..


1— John D born in 1805 & died in 1878, the son of Donald & Ann McDonald of 35/3 Lochiel
from St Raphael’s RC BMD 1806 baptisms
B22  John MacDonald 
John MacDonald lawful son of Donald MacDonald and Ann MacDonald was born the 6th and was baptized the 18th of May 1806. The sponsors were James MacDonell and Catherine MacDonald. 

2— John who was born in 1818 - ???  the son of Roderick Taylor MacDonald & Harriet McCormick of 29/1 Loch. Little at present is known about this John.
from St Raphaels RC BMD 1818 Baptisms
B116 John MacDonald 
The 8th day of October 1818, I the undersigned priest and vicar of St. Raphaels baptised John born the 2nd of October of the lawful marriage of Roderick MacDonald and of Oirig MacCormick. Sponsors John MacDonald and Catherina MacDonald. 
J. MacDonald P P

3— St Finnan’s Church death record for John D states he was 73 when he died in March 1878

4— the tombstone inscription for this John D is 1805-1878

5— the Ontario  official death record states John D is 73 when he died inn March 1878
6— the 1861 census indicates this John D is age 53

7— As a result of this outline presentation on John D MacDonald 1805-1878,  it shows that John D born 1805/06 is not the son of Roderick Taylor MacDonald & Harriet McCormick.

8-- That the John born in 1818 is the son of  Roderick Taylor MacDonald & Harriet McCormick. This John born in 1818 is not the ancestor of T MacDonald.

Will there be questions come about as these results are viewed. I will be surprised if they didn’t, even thought I may never see or hear about them.

Enjoy the journey

take care and God Bless
Alex W Fraser
Courtenay, BC
http://glengarrycounty.com/awfrrbks.html
Aug 11  2016 updated Sep 1/16

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