Tuesday, August 26, 2014

Angus MacDonald & Janet MacDonald, right names, wrong people

Angus MacDonald & Janet MacDonald, right names, wrong people

Received this query that was posted on Ancestry to review and comment on.

As shown below the query is from a KenMac48 and concerns the family of an Angus MacDonald and his wife Janet MacDonald.

My, Alex W Fraser,  comments, observations, conclusions are listed below and are subject to further clarification and correction.

Remember that these Comments, observations & conclusions may or may not agree with your perspective on the family names & information listed below.

post 1;
McDonald / MacDonald's of Glengarry
pastedGraphic.png kenmac48  (View posts)
Posted: 15 Aug 2014 10:55AM
Classification: Query
Surnames: McDonald, MacDonald, Graham
Seeking information on Roderick MacDonald who married Isabel or Elizabeth Graham at St Raphaels on August 24th 1848. Isabel died in August 1860, 8th-Lot 26 Lancaster.

I'm attempting to see if this Roderick and Isabel are my 4th Great Grantparents. In order for them to be, they need to have a son Angus MacDonald, born in about 1776, Inverness, Scotland. He died 18 October 1853 in Lochiel, Ontario. On November 28, 1826 he married Jennet or Janet MacDonald at St. Raphael's, Ontario. She was born in about 1787, Inverness, Inverness-shire, Scotland. She died 28 August 1858 in Lochiel, Ontario.

Any help will be much appreciated !
  
Post 2;
pastedGraphic_1.pngRe: McDonald / MacDonald's of Glengarry
pastedGraphic.png talmacdonald143  (View posts)
Posted: 15 Aug 2014 1:06PM
Classification: Query
Angus MacDonald, born in about 1776

Do you mean 1876 ?

Tal
  
Post 3;
pastedGraphic_1.pngRe: McDonald / MacDonald's of Glengarry
pastedGraphic.png talmacdonald143  (View posts)
Posted: 15 Aug 2014 1:20PM
Classification: Query
Forget about the first message I think I now see what you mean. You say that Roderick's son was Angus but I think you mean he was the son of Angus.

The marriage info from St. R. show Roderick to be the son of Angus MacDonald and Elizabeth MacDonell Lot 26 - Lancaster 8th.

Tal
  
Post 4 
pastedGraphic_1.pngRe: McDonald / MacDonald's of Glengarry
pastedGraphic.png kenmac48  (View posts)
Posted: 15 Aug 2014 1:27PM
Classification: Query
I don't think so...I have 1776 recorded as his birth year and 18 Oct 1853 as date of death.. Do you believe this is not possible ? 

My 2nd Great Grandfather, John MacDonald 1806 - 1875 married Anna Bathurst 1818 - 1907 on 03 Nov 1840 at St Finnan's, Alexandria.

I'm truly a novice genealogist therefore it's possible I am wrong.

Ken

Post 5;
pastedGraphic_1.pngRe: McDonald / MacDonald's of Glengarry
pastedGraphic.png kenmac48  (View posts)
Posted: 15 Aug 2014 1:42PM
Classification: Query
Oops sorry Tal...I sent you a reply before reading your above message.

I also have Roderick to be the son of Angus MacDonald and Elizabeth. 

My records show that Angus and Elizabeth were born and died in Scotland, exactly where in Scotland unknown. In addition to Roderick they had sons John and Alexander. 

However my predicament is knowing if Roderick MacDonald and Isabel or Elizabeth Graham are in fact my 4th GG.

Thank you so much for your efforts to help me. It is most apprecated.

Ken
————-
My, Alex W Fraser, comments, observations   from post 1
“Seeking information on Roderick MacDonald who married Isabel or Elizabeth Graham at St Raphaels on August 24th 1848. Isabel died in August 1860, 8th-Lot 26 Lancaster.

I'm attempting to see if this Roderick and Isabel are my 4th Great Grantparents.”

AWF Observation
Roderick MacDonald & Isabel Graham Lanc 8C N26 did have a son named Angus who married a  Janet MacDonald in 1826, namely
from St Raphael’s RC BMD 1826 marriages
M 8 ANGUS MACDONALD AND JENNET MACDONALD 
November 28th 1826, after 3 publications of banns made in this parochial church, were joined in marriage by me the undersigned priest, Angus MacDonald, who has attained the age of majority, son of Roderick MacDonald and of Elisabeth Graham on the one side and Jennet MacDonald being minor daughter of the deceased Angus MacDonald and of Margaret MacDonell on the other side. Alexander MacDougald, Hugh MacDonald and several others were present at the celebration of this marriage. 
Angus MacDonell ptr 

Here Angus’s mother is listed as Elizabeth, rather than Isabel, the first glitch in this journey.

Likewise from Post 1, “Angus MacDonald, born in about 1776, Inverness, Scotland. He died 18 October 1853 in Lochiel, Ontario. “ This Angus is not the son of Roderick MacDonald & Isabel Graham as shown in his death record,  from St Finnan’s RC BMD 1853 deaths Alexandria, Ontario
D15 Angus McDonald
On the 18th day of October 1853, I the undersigned interred in the cemetery at Alexandria, Angus McDonald son of John McDonald and Christy McDonald of the shire of Inverness aged 77 years. Witnesses Allen Williams, Donald McDonald and several others.
John R Meade

This Angus MacDonald married a Janet MacDonald and they lived in Lochiel 1C N3 and this Janet died in 1858    from St Finnan’s RC BMD 1858 deaths 
D5 Janet McDonald 3 - 1st Lochiel
On the 28th August 1858, The body of Janet McDonald, wife of the late Angus McDonald [tailor] 3-1st Lochiel was interred at Alexandria. Present John Chisholm & Alex’r Bathurst.

AWF observations
Now based on info in Post 3  
“The marriage info from St. R. show Roderick to be the son of Angus MacDonald and Elizabeth MacDonell Lot 26 - Lancaster 8th.”
This is correct, namely
from St Andrews Presbyterian/United Church BMD WMST 1792 Marriages
M2 RODERICK MACDONELL    AND    ISABEL GRAHAM.
  RODERICK MACDONELL AND ISABEL GRAHAM BOTH OF LANCASTER WERE MARRIED ON THE   14TH FEBRUARY 1792.

from St Raphaels RC BMD 1848 Marriages
M14 Roderick M’Donald & Isabel Graham
At St Raphaels on the 24th day of August 1848, Roderick M’Donald of this parish, Lanc 8C N26, major son of Angus McDonald & of Elisabeth McDonell on the one part; & Isabel Graham also of this parish Lanc 8C N26, daughter of Thomas Graham & of Margaret Graham on the other part; after 3 proclamations of bans at St Regis by the rev’d Roderick McDonell about 56 years ago before they were married by Mr Bethune, Williamstown, no impediment being known were joined in marriage by me the undersigned priest in the presence of the undersigned Mary McDonald & Catherine McDonald.
[signed] Mary Macdonald
             Catherine McDonald
John Macdonald priest & curate of St Raphaels.

AWF observations 
Now based on the info in Post 4  “My 2nd Great Grandfather, John MacDonald 1806 - 1875 married Anna Bathurst 1818 - 1907 on 03 Nov 1840 at St Finnan's, Alexandria.

”This Angus & Janet had a son John who married an Anne Bathurst in 1840
From St Finnan’s RC BMD 1840  
M10 JOHN M’DONALD AND ANN BATHURST 
The same day (3rd Nov. 1840), was married by me the undersigned priest, after three publications in this Church without any opposition having been found to their marriage, John M'Donald son of Angus McDonald and Jennet McDonald in the 1st con. of Lochiel: to Miss Ann Bathurst, daughter of William Bathurst and of Margaret McIntosh in the same con. of Lochiel. Were present Alexander Bathurst, Angus M'Dougald, John M'Donald and several others. 
J. M'Donald, P.P. 

12/09 awf
from St Rapahels RC BMD 1818 Baptisms
B88 Anna Bathurst
The 9th day of August 1818, I the undersigned priest and vicar of St Raphaels baptised Anna born the 14th of July of the lawful marriage of William Bathurst and of Pagy MacIntosh. Sponsors Angus MacDonell and Catherina MacDonell.
J. MacDonald    p

The above indicated that John was born in 1806. Since there is no reference to any baptisms in St Raphael’s BMD of children of any Angus Mac/McDonald/ell & Janet/Jane/Geny/Jeannette Mac/McDonell/ald before 1827,. The reference here, 1827 is to an Angus & Janet in 5th Lochiel with dau Flora. This Angus & Janet may or may not be a 3rd set. [ I could have missed finding an earlier reference] then it is assumed at present that the John who married Anne Bathurst was born in Scotland in 1806. Likewise John parents  Angus & Janet were also born & married in Scotland ca 1800-1805. 

Thus, if this John who was born in 1806, died in 1875, the son of Angus 1776-1853, of Loch 1C N3, then the Angus ca 1795-1865 in Wisconsin the son of Roderick MacDonald & Isabel Graham of  Lancaster 8C  who married a Janet MacDonald in 1826 could not be the father of the John born in 1806.

from Fr John’s Diary of Deaths 1819-1866 & 1839 Census in Part, 1992, edited by Alex W Fraser
APR 11 1865 Angus MD, in Wisconsin, son of Rod from Lanc 8C N26, of Angus of Hugh.

This a very good example of how easy it is to get the right names and the wrong people at the same time.  These Couples of  “Angus MacDonald & Janet MacDonald” regardless of how the last name is spelt,  are two different families.  

One lived in Charlottenburgh and or Lancaster, 8th concession, the other in Lochiel 1st concession.    There is a reference to an Angus & Janet MacDonald living in Charlottenburgh township 8th Concession who had a son Angus born in 1836. 

How many Angus & Janet MacDonald are we actually dealing with? Did one or more of these Angus & Janet’s move around as labourers? Are we mixing up 2 or 3 sets of them?

One of the fathers of Angus 1776-1853 was John ca 1742-ca 1800; & the other Angus  ca 1795-1865 was the son of  Roderick  ca 1764-1855. 

One of the Angus’ was born about 20 years before the other. 

These comments do leave room for more research to get done, as well as getting any missing gaps of family information for these sets of Angus & Janet MacDonald can be filled in correctly, to see whether or not my conclusions still stand up to and with that found new family information.

Hoping this will be of use.

take care and God Bless
Alex W Fraser
Courtenay, BC
Aug 25/14   jars924 @ me.com

4 comments:

Gera said...

Hello Alex, I too am looking for the same lineage as kenmac. His John P McDonald (m: Bathhurst) I believe is the brother of, my great grandfather, Laughlin/Lacklin (Tailor?) McDonald (b: 1810-1811 Inverness, Inverness-shire Scotland; d: 12 Jun 1898 Lot 22, 2 Concession, Glengarry, Ontario, Canada). The marriage record I have found for Lacklin:
Ontario, Canada, Catholic Church Records (Drouin Collection), 1747-1967 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2007. Original data: Gabriel Drouin, comp. Drouin Collection. Montreal, Quebec, Canada: Institut Généalogique Drouin.

to Isabel McDonell (b: 1824 Ontario Canada; D: 20 Aug 1889 Lochiel, Glengarry, Ontario Canada. From the marriage records of St Raphael it has them married on 23 Jul 1844, with Lacklin's parents as Angus McDonald and Janet McDonald and parents of Isabel as John McDonell and Nancy McDonald. Not sure this is correct re: Nancy as their mother.

Gera said...

From a family member I have a photocopy of the marriage certificate of Alexander J McDonald (son of Lacklin McDonald - above) to Henrietta (Harriet) McDonell/McDonald on 17 Jul 1877 at St Finnans which corresponds to the following: Archives of Ontario; Series: MS932; Reel: 25
Both the above and my photocopy of certificate of marriage list Donald J McDonald and Jessie Ann as witnesses and the same Priest is listed on both.
There isn't much information on the family of Henriette/Harriet McDonald b: 1 Nov 1858), except what is in the archived marriage certificate: parents as John McDonald (b: 1822-1868) and Sarah McDonald (d:1860) so neither were present at her wedding. Possibly raised by an uncle, Donald McDonald (1827-1893) from typed info handed down from a previous family historian. Any help on any information on any of the above would be greatly appreciated. I will share with other family members as well.

Gera said...

Harriet McDonald born Lochiel, Glengarry Ontario/d: 15 Jul 1936 Detroit, Wayne, Michigan. Buried with Alex J McDonald (b: 25 Mar 1852 Lochiel, Glengarry, Ontario/d: 7 Jun 1920 Superior, Douglas, Wisconsin), husband, and Lauchlin J McDonald (b; 21 Jan 1884 Glengarry, Ontario/d: 28 Aug 1905), son, at Calvery Cemetery, Superior, Wisconsin.

Alex W Fraser, Rhoda Ross, Alex Fraser said...

Hi Gera.

Thanks for the 3 notes as it helped me understand this family a little better. As you left no contact info there is little I can do to reply. I am not sure what your specific questions are in regards to this family.

take care and God Bless
Alex W Fraser
Courtney, BC
jars924 @ me.com